Paul Pogba Was Only With Le Havre For Two Years
By: Taylor Rockwell | September 8th, 2009
I’ve refrained from discussing the whole Paul Pogba/Le Havre thing for a few days, because I’m still not entirely sure what to make of it. My goal is to do a fair amount of research and lay it out as best I can. For now, I thought you all might enjoy this gem that was uncovered over on RedCafe.
It seems that Pogba originally played with Roissy-en-Brie before joining U.S. Torcy (a French club which emphasizes youth development) at the age of thirteen. Pogba stayed with Torcy for one year, and was then acquired by Le Havre. Thus, Pogba was a Le Havre player for two years before United signed him into their academy system. Two interesting points here:
1) A Torcy press release alleges that Le Havre pursued Pogba in a way that wasn’t exactly above board, and are still pursuing monetary compensation. You can read the press release (it’s Google translated from French) here. So, essentially, Torcy allege that Le Havre induced Pogba into becoming one of their players without first consulting his then current club.
2) In last week’s interview with The Times, Le Havre managing director Alain Belsoeur stated, “We spend €5m [about £4.3m] on our academy every year out of a turnover of €12m. It is a huge investment. We do that to give a chance to our players to develop for our first team, not to be an academy for others. What is the point of investing in an academy if the players leave at 16? This is clearly a message from FIFA to protect the education system.” Belsoeur makes it sounds like Le Havre plucked this kid out of the womb, put some boots on him, and sent him out to play. In actuality, he was in there academy system for TWO YEARS! Not exactly a long term investment.
That’s not to say that this whole situation doesn’t stink, or that big clubs are justified in signing young foreign players. My point is simply that it seems like Le Havre did to a smaller French club exactly what they’re now up in arms with United about. Obviously, there needs to be some kind of set regulation here, because I think individual investigation isn’t going to get the job done.
Like I said, I’m sure there’s a lot more to come of this, and I will try to get some kind of cohesive time line posted today or tomorrow. For now, I’ll just say that I’m increasingly less concerned about this whole issue. That may end up coming back to bite me in the ass, but I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.
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Comments | Add your comment
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Apart from poaching players from Italy and France have you guys recently groomed a English player ?
When was the last time a English player came out from your academy and blossomed ?
Fuck that shit , do you even have a player in your academy who is a future star and who has been born in Manchester ?
Posted from
United States
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Maybe some people should consider that youth players should have the right to leave anytime they want. A math prodigy doesn’t stay at a public high school when a technical school offers a scholarship. Same thing here, it seems like underage players should have a right to go where they are best served. Tying up toddlers in ridiculous pre-contracts is as immoral as poaching.
Posted from
United States -
Mark Hughes, David Beckham, Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs, Nicky Butt, Gary Neville, Phil Neville, Wes Brown, John O’Shea, Darren Fletcher, Jonny Evans, Darron Gibson, Frazier Campbell, Danny Simpson, Danny Welbeck are all currently / have been first team members of the Manchester United squad in recent years. All of the players that have left the squad (which isn’t many of them) have gone on to play their careers at the highest level.
And there are currently a number of prospects in the reserves from Manchester, although I don’t know why you consider their place of birth to be a factor. As a youngster wanting to get into football you go for trials. First you start with the best and if you’re not good enough you try other smaller clubs. You don’t go and play for the your (worse) local club if you’re good enough to play to Manchester United. It would be like turning down a job at MI5 to go and work at Tesco. Crap analogy I know, Adam’s was better.
Posted from
United Kingdom -
Danny Welbeck has all the potential of a big time player and was born in Manchester…. as were countless other current youth team players…
Posted from
United States -
Just a small little observational comment I’ve come up with when seeing the coverage of this story. He’s sixteen, he’s not an asset he’s a child, you don’t get to buy and sell him, no one should be about to do that, not even his parents. If he want’s to play he can play in his youth clubs close to home. He doesn’t need to go poncing off to England until he’s 18.
I know everyone keeps saying that FIFA is singling out the big clubs in England for this…but so the F*ck what? Wouldn’t it be nice if we had an international organization who had the power to stop horrific things from happening actually friggin step in when the power countries do it instead of just the weakest countries?
Posted from
United States -
dustin, it’s horrific now? seriously? it’s a fucking earthquake huh? it’s genocide now right? jesus christ.
if the fa’s of certain countries had the same rules as the english fa you can bet your ass holier than thou tools like dhaw would have their traps shut. just because you weren’t allowed to do doesn’t mean you have the moral high ground. go back over to the italy offside and keep hatching conspiracy theories about how english teams are the death of all things right. get the hell out of here with that seriously.
i’m not entirely for or against the supposed “poaching” of talents. le havre aren’t completely innocent in this case..and honestly most teams aren’t. i’m not absolving manchester united, or any of the tactics they’ve used previously but this venom from dudes that are pissed that our team is better than theirs is so transparent it’s not even funny.
OMG U SO WRONG MANCHESTER HOPE U DIEZ. U POACHEDZ. is about the level of discourse you little moaners are at.
Posted from
United States -
The thing is…signing younger players from other countries isn’t illegal. Assuming an English club didn’t actually break any regulations to get a young player, you can’t really punish them or get angry about them signing a kid. Not saying it’s right..but if FIFA/UEFA wants to do something…all they have to do is change the rules so English clubs can’t sign foreign players until they’re 18.
Trying to punish English clubs the way the rules are now (again assuming they did not break any other regulations) is ridiculous. UEFA/FIFA have the power to change the rules so that young players can’t be transferred – I believe young American players can’t play in Europe until they’re 18 – all they need to do is actually do it and we’ll never have to hear about this type of thing again.
Posted from
United States -
That’s just the rules, it wouldn’t happen. By contrast, offering a player with no contract a place at your club is within EU/FIFA/UEFA/whatever rules. If it wasn’t no-one would do it. Le Havre are jumping on the bandwagon because of the Chelsea ruling because they feel aggrieved with the transfer, and making up a story to fit
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hmmm
if its not illegal it still doesnt mean its ethical or right n shud be done
,lets leave united n say how many other clubs in epl practice it so regularly as united n arsenallets assume if we switch place between le havre n united
,le havre can bring in player at whatever age and united
cant contract player till they turn 18,what would the reaction be had macheda was bought for FREE to le havre cos united cant contract him downWHAT i am trying to say is it may be legal but its NOT RIGHT
not right to le havre not right to french league not right to french footballn saf knows what his team does is wrong he admitted it once when roma protested about petrucci-we all know what he said to spalleti(someone important in as roma) n how he turned a blind eye to the issue
Posted from
Canada -
elle u are spot on in the first paragraph
but i respectfully disagree to the second one
why shudnt be the club punished n how does a new start change anything for roma,lazio,le havre or any other victim club
they lost talent,there time,training n hard work is wasted,a fine n punishment is nothing but just
the step taken against chelsea was JUST
but if fifa only charge chelsea thats also wrong-anothe rissuePosted from
Canada -
“dustin, it’s horrific now? seriously? it’s a fucking earthquake huh? it’s genocide now right? jesus christ.”
I certainly didn’t mean to say it’s like any of those things…I was using say what the UN deals with as an allegory to what FIFA deals with. Of course comparing them in a 1 to 1 ratio would sound ridiculous which is exactly why you did it in order to try and make me sound ridiculous.
Trading such young players away from their homes and into the life of a professional athlete has an extreme effect on their development. I just don’t think it should be done all for the sake of money. I guess what I’m trying to say in a less dramatic way is, won’t somebody please think of the children?
Also making an example out of one of the most popular clubs in the world is very effective.
Posted from
United States -
“I guess what I’m trying to say in a less dramatic way is, won’t somebody please think of the children?”
Yes, god–the poor, poor children. Having to sign a contract and getting paid to train with the best players and best coaches in the best facilities in the world, all so that they can make their wildest dreams a reality. It’s so, so horrible, somebody should start a *@!%ing telethon.
Posted from
United States -
dustin i like your general thought of it…but it’s not like le havre signed him with his best intentions at heart…their eyes rolled back in their heads with dollar signs in them just as much as any other club that does this “poaching.” whether the kid is playing in france or in the united academy is not as gigantic as it seems either. i’m pretty sure he’ll be living in a new home with his family etc etc.
Posted from
United States -
es, god–the poor, poor children. Having to sign a contract and getting paid to train with the best players and best coaches in the best facilities in the world
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cool u got the player covered
but what about the poor clubs what did lazio get in return of finding n training macheda,what did roma get to spot petrucci or what did le havre get in return for grooming pogba for those two year let me tell u-
nothing but cheap negative publicityPosted from
Canada -
“Yes, god–the poor, poor children. Having to sign a contract and getting paid to train with the best players and best coaches in the best facilities in the world, all so that they can make their wildest dreams a reality. It’s so, so horrible, somebody should start a *@!%ing telethon.”
Ya know we have a similar problem in the US with Basketball players being “poached” right out of High School to play in the NBA. Some of them get a horrible injury and are never heard from again. Others get STDs or hooked on cocaine or heroine. Still other end up in jail, so it’s not ridiculous to be concerned over the coerced manipulation of these children and their parents. Especially when lots of times these things can go terribly wrong and ruin lives.
Posted from
United States -
amunt valencia–
I was only specifically responding to Dustin’s comments that insinuated that this was a child welfare issue. I agree that clubs who develop young talent should be fairly compensated should that starlet move to another club.
Dustin, as to your second point (in the comment directly above this)–that is a completely irrelevant analogy. To remedy that problem, the NBA has taken the step of saying that players cannot join a pro team–meaning they cannot make contact with the team, cannot practice with the team, cannot be affiliated in any way with the team–until the age of 19. But that’s not what we’re talking about here.
What we’re talking about is a young player who is already at a professional club, with lesser players, coaches, and training facilities, leaving to go to a bigger professional club, with world class players, coaches, and facilities, in order to become a better footballer. You imply that a player like Pogba is somehow more likely to: (a) get injured; (b) get STDs; (c) get hooked on hard drugs; and (d) end up in jail at Manchester United than he would at Le Havre. But this is nonsense. United have better training facilities and physios, so he’s much less likely to get injured, and if he does, he has a better chance to make a full recovery. As to the other things, I know it happens everywhere, but the fact is that Manchester United are invested in him and want him to turn out to be a great player, so it is absolutely in the club’s best interest to make sure he has an adequate support system in place so that he doesn’t suffer any pratfalls along the way in his development.
I’m an Arsenal fan, so if there were any merit to your argument I’d be happy to jump on the pile and twist the knife a bit, but all this “we’ve got to do it for the children” stuff is absurd. Pogba and any other 15 year-old would be thrilled at the chance to join a world-class club and have a chance to get the best training available, and hopefully one day play the game at the highest level. What went down may very well have been unfair to Le Havre, but it was certainly not unfair in any way to Pogba.
Posted from
United States -
dustin, are you implying that the united academy is a breeding ground for drug addicts and failures? there is a difference between (a) eschewing college education and amateurism for professionalism and (b) moving from one professional team to another. seriously, name one “poached” player that falls into the category you described, and, if so, how moving to a bigger club did that to him. this is a good debate to have, but leave the sensationalism out of it.
Posted from
United States -
I don’t have all the answers and I can see there are going to be some very vehement defenders of the All Mighty Dollar here, so I guess I have to bow out.
Millions of dollars thrown at athletes does not make them mature or whole people and it doesn’t solve their problems. Also I believe it ruins the beautiful game to have money be the deciding factor in it. Isn’t the FA Cup fought between about four teams every year…does anyone else see a problem with that?
Posted from
United States -
i’m not defending “the almighty dollar” or whatever else you claim, i’m just saying that it would be nice to have an argument without exaggerations, sensationalism, or petty accusations (defending the almighty dollar? really?). the reason i singled you out is because everyone else on this comment list that is against united’s actions argued their case with logic, which is something that you failed to do.
also, do your research… 3 of the last 4 fa cup finalists have been outside of the top 4. 5 of the last 7 finals have had a team outside of the top 4 (including 2 teams outside of the top tier).
and if it is the LEAGUE that you were trying to refer to, then last i checked, england has one of the more open races compared to the rest of western europe (don’t know enough about east europe) with 4 teams. most countries have only 2 or 3 teams that have a realistic chance year after year.
Posted from
United States -
I don’t see why I stirred a hornets nest by saying it’s wrong to buy and sell children like a commodity. It seems like common sense.
Posted from
United States -
Okay now may we move in to the Spurs game buildup? Like who’s injured and who’s available?
Posted from
Taiwan -
Rio looks to be fit for the Spurs match which is great news considering O’Shea’s injury.
Posted from
United States -
Also, what happened to Wayne? Is he still in a Barcelona induced booze coma?
Posted from
United States -
http://www.gingetalksthefooty.com/2009/09/afternoon-funny-we-can-win-premier.html
Posted from
United States -
Hell yeah Nemanja: http://www.studs-up.com/2008/10/bark-and-bite/?page=11
That is all.
Posted from
Taiwan -
How are you guys claiming that Pogba didn’t develop into the player he is while at Le Havre? Le Havre have a spectacular youth setup, and the two years from 14-16 are probably the most key in a players development!
Posted from
United States
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