Federico “Kiko” Macheda – Let the Lovefest Begin

well i just want to see you are the beset kiss

Ok, Parma was a mistake (they were on the receiving end of all those big transfers -- damn memory); so, moving quickly on, my point was that the Italian clubs were still doing what you accuse the English clubs of doing now. The English (and Spanish) may dominate the list *now*, but by the end of the Italian clubs' dominance in the early 2000s, the top fees paid would virtually all have been Italian, and by some margin (and this is without inflation adjusting). So, why is it all bad now and not then? Or when Real were making a mockery of all transfer sense with their Galactico policy? Again, Man City et al. are not doing anything different now; but why the hypocrisy? That's what I can't stand. Go on about the rich making a mockery of the poor, or how Havelange and now Blatter are the real ones who have prostituted football to avarice and I'd be there with you; but you instead make it out that the English are not just the ones validating the system, but are the ones responsible for it.

I wouldn't say that the South American clubs are "treated fairly". It's good will because the S. American clubs accept their fate: they know they are powerless to stop the rich European clubs, so they make the best of what the system has thrown at them. It may be the fourth biggest industry in Brazil, but it could be the third or second if they got what those players are actually worth. Fair enough the English clubs have been very impersonal in their transfers, but what else do you expect? What do you expect the English clubs to say to the Italian ones? Taking the players before they're 18 (or is it 16) allows the clubs to register those players as "home-grown" (or is it "home-trained" -- I forget now). So what else can they do but take those players and have little contact with clubs? OK, the English are to blame for playing the system, but I'm not blind as to assume that anyone else would do otherwise in that situation. I'd rather blame the system than argue the for the supposed ethical inequalities between our respective leagues. I'd rather blame Nazism than Nazi Germany, or Capitalism rather than bank traders.

dude scores one goal and there's a circle jerk around his picture .. amazing ..

man utd are whores!!

Hmm, an intelligent person. This is surprising here...

"Those Brazilian clubs may get a fee for their players, but it’s far less than what they will be worth in a few years time: they reluctantly let those players go because they know that if they keep them they’ll just go for free anyway sooner or later. Go and read Tim Vickery’s blog at the BBC and he’ll explain better than I could how Italian and the Mediterranean clubs are “stealing” talent from South America (again, they get more money than Lazio and your Roma got, but it’s still theft since it’s a lot less than what they’re potentially worth)."

First of all, those players that we sign are all adults. The rules we have for Italians is the same we have for foreigners. Secondly, the same man, Vickery, wrote a piece recently regarding the size of the industry of exporting players. That is, it's the fourth biggest industry - supplying players to europe- in Brazil. Thirdly, have you seen the size of the payments? Lazio was cheated the fee of finding a player and training him when ManUre stole him due to the FA's tacit approval of taking advantage of "the continent". All the clubs and agents in South America are treated fairly and the Italian clubs are happy with the transfers. There generally is good will between clubs. Why can't ManUre do the same? Why try to be underhanded? Both clubs are in the same business, with similar problems, would it kill them to have a working relationship that extends past, "Gimme It's Mine!"?

"It’s this bitter attitude that the English are to blame for all these problems of modern football which I can’t stand. As for the scourge of the financially strong, aren’t the world record fees paid for players still mostly held by Italian clubs?"

Well, if you can't stand it, than I suggest that your clubs stop stealing players. As far as financially strong goes... lets see what happens if this credit crunch doesn't go away. Italian teams have far less debt than English clubs do.

And I believe that Real Madrid, which is *not* an Italian team, has the record for transfer fee, that of Zidane from Juventus, which allowed Juventus to pay for Buffon. And frankly, it boggles my mind to think that Parma paid 30 million pounds for anything... I don't think Parma is worth 30 million pounds.

As it turns out English clubs are 6 of the top 15 highest transfer fees in the history of football. Real Madrid occupy #s 1 and 2 (Zidane and Figo) plus further down #9 (Ronaldo). Manchester United have 4 of the English 6: Berbatov, Ferdidand, Veron and Rooney. The other 2 English clubs are Man City (Robinho) and Chelsea (Shevchanko).

Italian clubs have 5 spots on this list (Buffon, Crespo, Nedved, Vieri, Mendieta). So your info is very wrong. Most world record fees are owned by English clubs not Italian ones. And lets not even go to Kaka to Man City... or Man City's expected shopping spree shall we?

MAD, England have been rubbish for 40 years, foreigners or not, so your argument isn't really that brilliant. But, to be fair, you are making a valid point, albeit very aggressively; but, having watched English football in the 90s, I'd rather take a small number of world class English players than a lot of mediocre ones. Yes, it's not perfect and I can see it ending badly, but you could also argue that the real problems are with the youth development laws and culture (of results rather than technical standard) rather than the influx of foreigners. The Italian youth is good because the Italian coaches teach their youngsters to be up to the foreign standards rather than suppressing the presence of foreign players. England's future is pinned on Burton, rather than Platini and his protectionism.

Hey u guys are doing this all wrong, this is supposed to be a Lovefest not a hatefest. Simmer down people!

Hey, look, I agree that it's a problem, but it's not a problem because of the English. It's a problem between big clubs and smaller clubs. Those Brazilian clubs may get a fee for their players, but it's far less than what they will be worth in a few years time: they reluctantly let those players go because they know that if they keep them they'll just go for free anyway sooner or later. Go and read Tim Vickery's blog at the BBC and he'll explain better than I could how Italian and the Mediterranean clubs are "stealing" talent from South America (again, they get more money than Lazio and your Roma got, but it's still theft since it's a lot less than what they're potentially worth). It's this bitter attitude that the English are to blame for all these problems of modern football which I can't stand. As for the scourge of the financially strong, aren't the world record fees paid for players still mostly held by Italian clubs? Did people complain that Italy was destroying football when Juve paid £30m+ for a goalkeeper; or when Lazio and Parma etc. splashed out £30m+ for players like no tommorrow? Something WILL bring English football down: it's folly to think otherwise; but it's just bitter jealousy to think that the English created it.

Again, I don't doubt that these are problems, but they're not problems that the English created.

This should read:

Actually lets do this, how many Italian Inter players have *scored* in a World Cup/Euro FINAL against how many English ManU players *appeared* in a World Cup/Euro final.

"i’m an inter fan and i don’t know what a player from my own country playing on my own team looks like"

Okay, this is just too funny. I'll tell you what, I'll count up the number of Italian Inter players from the youth team up that have played in a World Cup/Euro Final and how many ManUre players have done the same. Then we'll talk about bringing up youth talent. Actually lets do this, how many Italian Inter players have *scored* in a World Cup/Euro against how many English ManU players *appeared* in a World Cup/Euro final. Then we will talk about bringing up youth talent, okay?:)

"we like buying old guys from other countries…but since they’re old and not young that makes it ok…"

Really? You have a problem with football teams signing adults? Sooooo you're telling me that ManUre *doesn't* sign adults? What do they sign? Embryos?

"and if they’re 18 like balotelli and santon…that’s not too young to cripple a career…17 is though. 17 signals the ruination…"

So, I don't know what an Italian looks like on my team, but then there are at least 2 Italian guys on the team? Well, which is it? Are there, or aren't there any Italians on Inter? Are you not sure, because the BPL propaganda machine won't tell you, or because you can't count? And by the way, both of these guys are adults. Before Inter signed them, Inter had to gain family approval to invite these gentlemen to their academy and they were free to go at any time. ManUre tapped this kid up at 15 and signed him and his father to a contract at 16. If he quit, or didn't cut it, his father was out of a job. Classy. Oh and both these previously unknown gentlemen also now have national european exposure/success, thanks to Inter's youth development. Something that ManUre can never say about to an Italian...

"even though if any club has proven that bringing kids up early is fine it’s united…you know like george best or ryan giggs…or some guy called cristiano…but i dont know what the fuck i’m talking about so i’ll shut the fuck up now” said the slapoff."

Cristiano was older than this kid was when ManUre stole him. I noticed that you don't include any Italians in your amusing little tirade, which I think, makes my point even better, so thanks for that. I especially like how I don't know what I am talking about even though every little thing you wrote here was either a flat out lie; which is par for the course really; wrong, which makes it more fun, or self contradictory which means that my work here is done. Have fun. I did.

"Oh, and MAD you’re quite funny."

I need you to tell me this? Of course I am.

"Attacking Italian fans? Perhaps in the 1980s, but that omits two things : the Heysel disaster was a result of an outdated an insecure stadium... ...and that in the past few years, it’s Italy who are far ahead of anybody else in the “hooligan” department"

Nooo, Heysel was the result of English fans crushing Italian fans. If the stadium was outdated, then both sets of fans would have been crushed, not just the one.

And you either flat out wrong regarding, "perhaps in the 80s" or you are lying through your teeth (more likely and typical, I think). The army had to be called in during Italia '90 to *protect* English fans in Sardegna because the population had enough of the riots and property damage. What, 500 fans were deported? Was there a problem with the stadium there, too? How about in Spain? More stadium problems? Rome, where the fans charged the riot squad? Blame the stadium there too, huh? I happens far too often to be blaming stadia.

Did you happen to notice how no one missed you guys at Euro 2008? Nice peaceful tournament it was, too... and we were there. If we were hooligans, of the magnitude that you describe.... then who was attacked? Which countries fans did we kill? Which countries police did we try to charge and throw things at? I missed all that, maybe it's because I tend to laugh at Setanta Sports like everyone else with half a brain...

"Last year’s Man U squad had how many English players? Scholes, Hargreaves, Carrick, Brown, Rooney, Ferdinand, Neville… And how many other players from Man U’s academy? Giggs, O’Shea, Fletcher..."

Thanks for missing the point. You are ruining the career of the young player you steal (statistics don't lie, most of our youngsters that you take crap out) and your own from lack of pt. Keep taking our players while young and putting them on your better teams that get European experience at the expense of your own countries. The players you are mentioning above win nothing on the Eurpean stage without the foreigners you bring in.

Case in point, when you have an all English squad you crap out in the World Cup and you can't make it to the Euros. In fact, it takes a foreigner to coach your best teams... including your National teams.

So keep on doing it, and blaming Sepp Blatter for all your problems. I think it's really funny, which is the point I was trying to make. Nice to see that more than one of you missed it. Which, lets face it, isn't terribly surprising...

Naeem, the fact is that the English have a reputation in the continent, and certain hooligan groups seek bragging rights by having a go at the "masters". The same thing happened when Arsenal and Leeds fans were attacked by Galatasaray supporters some years back. No doubt the English fans aren't blameless (and they have a penchant for getting drunk), but this is distinctly an Italian hooliganism issue, not an English one. In England, proper policing ensures that most known hooligans aren't even in possession of their passports on match days. The sooner the Italian authorities and fans accept the truth the better.

Calcio fans really have to let this "stealing" thing go: it's not theft to offer somebody a contract that they are free to accept or not. Perhaps we should ask all those South American clubs what they think of Italian clubs and this "thieving" issue?

Game over for the "EPL" will not be 6+5. I really doubt the EU Parliament will pass a law that contravenes one the founding principles of the EU. Most people here are not from Europe, so don't really get how 6+5 hits a nerve in the EU. So, a little European history lesson: the European Coal and Steel Community was set up between France and Germany (and a few other countries) in order to ensure no war would break out in Europe again since steel and coal are vital for a war machine to operate, and a common market would prevent any one country from fully controlling their own supplies. Included in the treaty that established this community was the freedom of labour, partly to allow for the ease of operation of this common market, but also to prevent national discrimination in Europe again following Nazism and Fascism. 60 years on and the ECSC has evolved into the EU, and even now Europe is still haunted by the fact that ethnic and national tensions caused a war that nearly destroyed the continent (look at the fuss that David Černý caused with his brilliant sculpture). Really, there's more chance of the EU passing a holocaust denial than allowing 6+5.

I'd agree about the whole loyalty thing, or should we just call it strong national ties.

Even if they don't stay at United in the long term, we'll make a more than tidy profit from them. Everybody wins.

The one clear thing from the Kiko saga with Lazio is that the problem lies with the Italian system, and not with Kiko, Alex Ferguson or Man Utd. Utd signed him legally. Some may say it was a bit dodgy but it wasn't. All above board.

And now it's paying dividends!

belive...kiko will be next world best player...may be 2 or three more years. glory2 man united.

Yes, in Italy we value so highly the "choices" made by athletes that we oblige them when they're 14 to sign a contract barring them from signing their first pro contract with any other team in the federation. Macheda and Lazio dissagreed over his remuneration and first team prospects when he was 16 (much like Fabregas and Piqué at Barcelona), but since he couldn't sign with another Italian team, he opted to join Man U.

I mean, you really, really think that a 16-year old that's playing for a team in the top division (even in the youth/reserves) doesn't have a contract? Sorry to dissapoint you, but all European FAs allow the signing of trainee contracts or precontracts from age 14 and up (and no, England is no exception). The only difference is that in England a club cannot sign a pre-contract or trainee contract that forbids a player from joining another club of the FA before he has signed a pro contract with said club. In other countries this is allowed. So when a good player disagrees with his club over his valuation/future prospects, the club can say "so what? you can't sign anywhere else!", and forces the player to remain on their terms. English clubs can't protect their young players like that, so they offer them better incentives to stay.

Oh, and MAD you're quite funny. Last year's Man U squad had how many English players? Scholes, Hargreaves, Carrick, Brown, Rooney, Ferdinand, Neville... And how many other players from Man U's academy? Giggs, O'Shea, Fletcher... Attacking Italian fans? Perhaps in the 1980s, but that omits two things : the Heysel disaster was a result of an outdated an insecure stadium, as well as lax policing of ticket sales; and that in the past few years, it's Italy who are far ahead of anybody else in the "hooligan" department. This year it was Arsenal fans getting stabbed, last year and the year before Man U fans... And that's just against Roma. Means the player doesn't get any U-19 & U-21 exposure? Like who? Le Tallec? Played numerous games in the U-19, a few in the U-21. Sinama-Pongolle? I guess playing for Atletico and already having one French NT call-up is "crippling". There are also numerous players who stayed in their clubs and never made it despite being brilliant in the youth teams. Terry Cooke is one of the many at Man U, but almost every team in the world has one. It's a player's development that makes them one of the best in the world or not. Not staying in their club or going elsewhere. Look at the list of best players at the U-17 WC : 2007 and 2005 are too recent to really tell, but the 2003 choice was Fabregas, who hasn't turned out too bad despite changing club; the 2001 winner was Sinama-Pongolle, who after a very rough patch with Liverpool seems to be doing OK; 1999 was Landon Donovan, who is pretty much a failure, partly because of his move to the Bundesliga was a failure; 1997 saw Santamaria from Barcelona take the prize, and despite staying at Barcelona he was an immense flop (9 games in 5 years, hai!); 1995 and it's Kathiri who won it (the Omani government refused his move abroad, within 3 years he had become a very average player never to be heard of again). The only one of these players who went on to be a great player was... One of the three that changed club. The two that stayed in their club were flops like the other two that changed club.

Taylor relax man, just enjoy the brilliance of the kid's goal for now, you worry too much.

That said I am concerned over our injury / suspension situ prior to Porto *worries*

You two are so cute.

"i'm an inter fan and i don't know what a player from my own country playing on my own team looks like...we like buying old guys from other countries...but since they're old and not young that makes it ok...and if they're 18 like balotelli and santon...that's not too young to cripple a career...17 is though. 17 signals the ruination...even though if any club has proven that bringing kids up early is fine it's united...you know like george best or ryan giggs...or some guy called cristiano...but i dont know what the fuck i'm talking about so i'll shut the fuck up now" said the slapoff.

"We tried to be as ruthless as possible. I mean we all know that England can't possibly provide talent for our own teams, I mean we can't even make it into the Euros. So we have tried to take advantage of the fact that other European countries actually wait until a player has reached his age of majority to make a reasonable decision regarding his future. Whereas we in England can't hope to actually work with any other European club on a fair and open basis, especially Italians whom we have viciously attacked causing loss of life and property over several incidents including a World Cup and a European Championship, so we have rewritten our rules to allow us to go after players younger than any other football federation allows. We splash some cash, which is more immediate and seems like big money to a 16 year old, but in reality is probably less than what they could earn if they worked hard for a couple of years and made the effort to stay with their parent club. It also has the added bonus of guaranteeing that the player will never get any U19 or U21 international experience/exposure and in most cases, cripple his career." said a typical ethnocentrist spokesman for the FA... er, fan of the BPL...

"we tried to be as xenophobic as possible...we tried to offer him more meager means than united for the joy of playing in our country...but we couldnt foresee that maybe the guy's career could end at any second...like any player...so he took as much money as he could get and even if that's "selfish" or "not playing for the right reasons"...you'd think we'd understand but we're pissed" said a lazio official.

I know... we're using the loose interpretation of the term "stole' to reflect the amusing nature of the situation... I wasn't really thinking that the youngster nicked it out of his locker or anything... more so that Neville was probably teasing him about not being old enough to drink, so Kiko grabbed it off of him... jokingly...

Gary Neville gave it to him,He didn't have to steal it away from him??

How did he get into a nightclub?

I'm sure if he's prone to any suspect behaviour Ferguson will shout it out of him, so I wouldn't worry about that.

You say that now, but just wait until he puts in a little more gel and starts netting on a consistent basis... then we'll see...

No thanks, keep your guido.

He does seem like a bit of a Champagne Charlie to be honest. Hope he can keep his head down and get on with his steady progress. Judging by some his touches yesterday, the goal and some of his goals in the reserves, he could be a real quality player.

No better place for him to learn his trade either. Ferugson won't let him out of his sight. Really excited about the prospect of this lad.